Dear Tibians,

this topic is dedicated to our rework of the charm system. We are looking forward for you to try all the features and we appreciate your input.
Have fun and thank you for testing!

Vision:
The charm system has been upgraded and reorganised to expand the use for players and enhance strategic gameplay.

More Information:
All charms can now be upgraded twice after unlocking them initially. If you already have unlocked a charm, you will automatically receive the first improvement for this charm as the former cost of unlocking equals the cost to reach the first improvement in the new system.
The new charms Savage Blow, Fatal Hold and Void Inversion promise you more critical damage, a fleeing prevention for monsters and a conversion of mana drain to mana gain, respectively.
The costs for Savage Blow are 1200, 800 and 4000 Charm Points for the three levels, the costs for Fatal Hold are 2000, 1000 and 6000 Charm Points for the three levels and
the costs for Void Inversion are 480, 320 and 1600 Charm Points for the three levels.

Also, you will now be able to assign both an active charm (offensive/defensive) and a passive charm to a creature at the same time.

For further information, you can read our announcement teaser and its corresponding forum thread.


Feedback:
How do you like the new charm system and the three new charms?
Do you have ideas for further improvement or other thoughts to share?
Did you find some bugs?
We are happy to hear your feedback!

Updates and Fixes:
All updates and fixes will be published in the Fixes and Changes thread.


Official replies:

• first respond
  
• Potential changes to Passive Charms
  
• Active and Passive will become Major and Minor Charms
  
• Minor charm points and minor charm values
  
• Resets will stay as gold costs. Clarifications regarding adrenaline burst, scavenge and minor charm values
  
• Intended: Cleanse not removing agony dot
  
• Charmsystem rework, savage blow fix and bestiary charm selection
  
• Issues regarding the latest patch from November 11th
  
• Minor Charm Echoes gain and cost changes. Clarifications regarding bugs, early assignment of minor charms, minor charm values and the bless charm.
  
• Amount of minor charm echoes gained. Dodge stays major.
  
• Minor charm assignment at unlock stage 2 and multiple clarifications
  
• New reset pricing and three new major charms
  
• Lots of clarifications for the new major charms
  
• Buffs for vampiric embrace, voids call, savage blow and carnage, adjusted damage caps for charms and additional clarifications
  
  

Dear Tibians,

thank you very much for your feedback!
We really appreciate this!

At first, I want to start with all your suggestions around passive charms, defensive charms and charm costs:
We will evaluate all of your feedback and examine thoroughly what we can do for you. Please stay tuned.

But we will not address any vocation balacing as part of this feature.

There were several reports, that Savage Blow might be broken. We will investigate this.
Thank you for all your examples concerning this issue!

Originally posted by Grunta on 05.11.2024 13:56:56:

Is the description of Adrenaline Burst correct?
It says there is 5/10/11% chance for getting 150 speed for 10 seconds.

But its much more then 150 speed, im getting over 1.3k speed

We will check this, thank you for reporting!


Originally posted by Roc ky on 05.11.2024 20:04:56:

Ive noticed that the icons for these new charms are duplicates of existing charms, specifically:

- Void's Call is now sharing its icon with Fatal Hold.
- Wound is now sharing its icon with Savage Blow.
- Parry is now sharing its icon with Void Inversion.

That was not intended and we fixed this. Each charm should have a different icon.

Originally posted by Niezapominajek on 05.11.2024 20:26:07:

Erm,

I logged in and my adrenaline burst was gone for some reason but I also seem to have like 3k charm points more than on live server.

Is this just for test server or an intentional change to live too?

This sounds strange, we will check this.


Originally posted by Xande Tuning on 06.11.2024 03:56:54:

I would really like to know if the reset will always be on all charms, because it's a bit of a hassle whenever you want to change a charm, you have to reconfigure everything all over again

Yes, the reset is on all charms.

Best regards,
Yoneda

Dear Tibians,

Thank you for all your feedback so far!

We have evaluated your input and developed a concept for potential changes based on it. We would like to hear your thoughts once more before finalizing these changes.

Our main goal is to make Passive Charms more appealing to use. In the current system, there is little incentive to unlock Passive Charms before unlocking all desired Active Charms.
We therefore aim to make Passive Charms more accessible early on, without losing the benefits of Active Charms or diminishing their value.

The updated Charm system would work as follows:

Active Charms will be unlocked and upgraded with Charm Points, as in the current system.
Passive Charms will not be unlocked directly with Charm Points. Instead, for every Active Charm unlocked or upgraded, you will receive Passive Charm Points. These are a new resource, only visible in the Charm interface. Passive Charm Points will be used to unlock and upgrade Passive Charms.

Additionally, the following Active Charms will become Passive Charms:

- Adrenaline Burst
- Numb
- Cripple
- Cleanse
- Vampiric Embrace
- Void's Call

Some of their values, as well as the values of existing Passive Charms, might be adjusted.

More changes and tweaks are in progress, but for now, we look forward to hearing your thoughts on these potential changes.

Cheers,
Fluffey

Dear Tibians,

Thank you once again for all your feedback!

Here are some more details on our current plans:
- Active Charms will be renamed Major Charms.
- Passive Charms will be renamed Minor Charms.

These new names better reflect how the Charm system works and clarify why certain Charms are considered Major while others are Minor. Due to their power, Parry and Dodge will remain classified as Major Charms.

However adding a passive mana and hp leech charm is too op.

Vampiric Embrace and Void's Call will have their effects reduced, as we agree they would otherwise be too powerful as Minor Charms, especially with the easier access to Minor Charms in the upcoming system.

i rly like the idea, worth a try! Im just curious how many points you will gain from charms

Can you provide more details on the ratio of active charms used to passive charms obtained?

How do passive points work?
Would it be for every 1 active charm you will receive 1 passive charm?

While exact numbers are still being finalized, you will approximately unlock a Minor Charm each time you unlock or upgrade a Major Charm.

Numb & Cripple will be game-changing when it comes to ks'ing and fighting on spawns.

We will monitor the power levels of Minor Charms closely and make balance adjustments as needed.

Keep in mind these changes won't be available on the test server before next week. More details will follow soon.

Cheers,
Fluffey

Greetings Tibians,
Since there are no additional changes going live before the weekend, I wanted share some further explanations and information about the proposed Major/Minor charm system:
As mentioned, the rate at which you can unlock minor charms is important to properly evaluate the system, so here it is: Every time you unlock or upgrade a major charm, you will receive 100 minor points.
Unlocking a minor charm will cost you 100 minor points, so every major charm unlock or upgrade allows you to unlock a new minor charm. Upgrading a minor charm to level 2 will cost 125 and to level 3 150 minor points respectively. Upgrading a minor charm will cost 125 Minor Points for level 2 and 150 for level 3. This should overall result in characters being able to start their journey into the world of charms faster but getting the stronger versions will still require effort.

What we are currently discussing:

• The cost to reset all charms: We wanted to remove the finality of choices in the charm system but not making resets too trivial and we think the current price does not properly reflect that. We are discussing an adjustment that would involve a secondary currency- most likely hunting task points- when resetting. We think this will align better with our vision and provide a greater sense of accomplishment.
  
• The individual numbers on all minor charms. Our first draft looks like this:
  
  • Bless (6%/9%/12%)
    
  • Gut (6%/9%/12%)
    
  • Scavenge (60%/90%/120%)
    
  • Fatal Hold (30%/45%/60%)
    
  • Void Inversion (20%/30%/40%)
    
  • Adrenaline Burst (6%/9%/12%)
    
  • Numb (6%/9%/12%)
    
  • Cripple (6%/9%/12%)
    
  • Cleanse (6%/9%/12%)
    
  • Vampiric Embrace (1%/1.5%/2%)
    
  • Voids Call (0.6%/0.9%/1.2%)
• The possibility of reintroducing charm assignment directly within the bestiary.

Additionally, you can expect the following improvements:

• Charm Points and Minor Charm Points will be displayed to show your current points and maximum capacity (e.g., 200/500)
  
• The prices for unlocking the first stage and the second stage of major charms will be switched.

Lastly, were aware that the increase in power from level 2 to level 3 for major charms isnt as high as some of you expected, but we are still satisfied with the current design. We aim to offer benefits for players who go the extra mile while simultaneously not taking relevant power away for players that are satisfied with the old charm system.

Greetings,
Niadus

Thanks for the valuable feedback over the weekend.

Regarding resets:
Even though the intention of the reset cost was never to be a gold sink, we hear you and won't change it to hunting task points. We will take another look at the gold price instead. Regardless of the final decision, the first reset will still be free.

Regarding additional points that were raised:

• Adrenaline Burst will still grant 150% speed. The activation chance will be 6/9/12%. The description will be updated to properly reflect this effect.
  
• Scavenge will not revert to additive values. These heavily limited design space for skinning/dusting in the past.
  
• Nobody will loose any Charm Points on release. Depending on the amount of changes during this testserver we might have to partially or even fully reset all spend charms. But even then you will keep the first free reset.
  
• The values for all minor charms are still getting evaluated. Our main goal was to get the system out to you as fast as possible.

Greetings,
Niadus

Hi Niadus.
Please double check savage blow charm it is not working.

We'll take a look. Is it correct, that you are not getting any increase in critical damage?

Originally posted by Bapstar on 11.11.2024 12:11:47:

Hey @Yoneda, @Niadus, @Fluffey, looks like my question was ignored so ill try again.

Could u confirm if its a bug or its intended that cleanse charm doesnt remove agony dot from darklight core spawn? (attack from darklight source and darklight striker)

Bap

This is currently intended.

Yes, I can not say that the rune is not working because I dont know how it works! If it is working correctly the Charm is not worth at all because I can not see any damage improve on my critical hit when I put the Savage Blow on the creature!

So just let me know if work like this: If I have 60% critical damage and set up a Savage Blow on creature I will have 90% critical damage on that creature?

Yes that how it should work

The initial badge of changes will go live soon. We snuck in a small bonus for all promoted characters, which should be all of you. The promotion will grant 100 minor charm echoes, allowing every character upon promotion to unlock a single minor charm.

Regarding savage blow: We have found the issue - it currently only works on attacks not spells - and are working on a fix.

Regarding charm assignment in the bestiary: We have found a solution and the change is currently in the works.

Greetings,
Niadus

Dear Tibians,

The latest patch, which updated the Charm system, introduced some issues that we are aware of and currently investigating. Negative Minor Charm Echoes and similar bugs are not intended and will be fixed soon.

The description of the ZAP rune has a word wrong. Atttacks (with 3 "t")

Adrenaline Burst still missing "%" in the description (150 instead of 150%)
Zap - triple "t" in "atttack"

Thank you for reporting! This will be corrected.

In first post about that rework you said minor charms gonna cost 100/125/150 minor points, but on the server its 100/225/375 minor points, is it intended?

These values are not intended. The correct cost for unlocking and upgrading Charms is 100/125/150, and the values on the test server will be updated accordingly.

also the prices for lvl1 and lvl2 are not swapped as you said, but i guess its still "in progress"

This will be addressed in an upcoming patch.

There is also problem with refreshing list of monsters while selecting charm [...]

Thank you for reporting this. We will investigate the issue.

We are working to resolve these issues and will update you in this thread once the new patch is live.

Cheers,
Fluffey

There are some additional changes we will make to the system:
The amount of minor charm echoes you gain from unlocking will go from 100/100/100 to 50/100/200.
The amount of minor charm echoes you need for unlocking will go from 100/125/175 to 100/150/225.
This still allows for early entry into the system while putting a greater emphasis on higher stages and even gives more value to stage 3 major charms without increasing their bonus.
The promotion will still grant 100 minor charm echoes.

Hello, i've been testing the charm sections and i realized that every time i spent minor points and reset all charms the minor points became major points for some reason

my total now is showing 10,309 / 7,684
while my real total is 7,684, i still can use those 10,309 to upgrade major charms
...

This is a known issue and will be fixed.

Would you consider removing the requirement of having a fully unlocked bestiary entry before being able to apply a minor charm?

This idea and the reasoning behind is is sound and we are currently evaluating it.

----------------------------------------
It should be
Void Inversion (30%/50%/60%)
Vampiric Embrace (1.5%/2.5%/3.0%)
Voids Call (1.0%/1.5%/2.0%)

Remember, its assigned just to 1 monster.

We are fine with were Void Inversion is sitting right now. We'll take another look at the values of Vampiric Embrace and Voids Call.

Can you clarify how the % of the Bless charm applies over a death loss?

Currently we can protect 86% of our experience loss with blessings and promotion. Will the % granted by Bless Charm be additive to this (e.g. getting up to 96% protection), or will it take the 14% experience loss and then protect a % of this value instead?

The bless charm is not additiv to blessings and promotion. It will be applied after these have been applied. In your example it would be 14% * 12% = 1,68% additional protection for a total of 86% + 1,68% = 87,68%. It naturally is much better for lesser or unblessed characters.

Regarding the wording of minor charms: We'll take another look to make the wording clearer wherever it is possible.


Thanks for all the feedback and testing. We are currently prioritizing fixing/changing the system and will fix most of the tooltip errors or leftovers later but please keep on reporting them.

Greetings,
Niadus

Dodge will stay as a major charm. It is used and as such deserves it spot as a major charm.

Niadus, sorry but I didn't get these last changes to minor charm gains...

You meant that unlocking each stage of a given major charm will give us 50, 100, 200 respectivelly?

What is this promotion that'll grant 100 minor charms then?

Yes unlocking each stage will give 50, 100, 200 minor charm echoes respectivelly.

Additionaly, as I mentioned in another post, all character gain 100 minor charm echoes upon getting promoted. This will be active retroactively for all promoted characters.

Just a quick update:

• It is not intended to just being able to max out every minor charm. However it is still quite easy to unlock and upgrade multiple minor charms.
  
• Increasing the size of the cyclopedia will not be part of this winter update as it includes work on all its tabs.
  
• We will slightly increase Vampiric Embrace and Void's Call. We haven't decided on the exact values yet.
  
• Fatal Hold will have its wording adjusted to better reflect how it works
  
• Zaps typo will be fixed
  
• The jury is still out on the price for resets
  
• We'll take another look at applications of cleanse
  
• Savage blow should now work
  
• We won't be adding a charm planner in this update.

The assignment in the bestiary is still being worked on and we decided to allow minor charms to be assigned at bestiary unlock stage 2.

We are still discussing more and hopefully I can share details tomorrow. Stay tuned.

Greetings,
Niadus

As I alluded to yesterday, we still have more coming your way.

Resets:
The cost of resets will be changed from 5.000 Gold per Level to 100.000 Gold + 11.000 Gold per level starting from level 101. Here are some examples for the new pricing structure:

• Level 50 => 100.000 Gold (previously 250.000)
  
• Level 100 => 100.000 Gold (previously 500.000)
  
• Level 101 => 111.000 Gold (previously 505.000)
  
• Level 102 => 122.000 Gold (previously 510.000)
  
• Level 500 => 4.500.000 Gold (previously 2.500.000)
  
• Level 2000 => 21.000.000 Gold (previously 10.000.000)

This allows more experimentation for low level characters while increasing the price for more powerful characters.

More Major Charms:
Three new Major charms will be added:

• Carnage: Killing a monster has 5/10/11% chance to deal physical damage equal to 10% of its maximum hp to all monsters in a small radius around it
  
• Overpower: Your attacks have a 5/10/11% chance to deal damage equal to 5% of your maximum health.
  
• Overflux: Your attacks have a 5/10/11% chance to deal damage equal to 2,5% of your maximum mana.

All three charms will cost 600/900/3000 for their respective stage. Carnage will deal physical damage and Overpower/Overflux will deal the same damage type as the parry charm.

As these changes might not hit the testserver, please provide input based on the given description. I'll try to clarify any question that comes up.

Greetings,
Niadus

Some additional information that I forgot to mention in the last post:
These charms will come with safeguards already in place:

• Carnage is capped to cause a maximum damage of 2.5 times the character level.
  
• Overpower and Overflux are capped to 15% of the targets maximum hp.

Especially the cap on Overpower and Overflux should stop them from heavily abusing hunts that are far below your intended difficulty.

Can you clarify if Overpower triggers can form a chain reaction (triggering itself on following monster) to create some amazingly satisfying explosions?

Sadly I must inform you that we have decided to not allow chain explosions. Carnage will not be able to trigger another Carnage.

Can you confirm the radius? Is it 1sqm, like regular exori, or maybe bigger like Divine Caldera or Groundshaker? Pretty important to help us evaluate usability.

I am pretty sure I have to disappoint you. It will hit all nondiagonal squares like this.
- x -
x x x
- x -
Both the damage and the size might be reevaluated, once they have been in use. However we do not want this charm to eclipse all existing charms.

Finally, one more request: you are doing such an amazing job with these charms and adding so many great ones, could you consider adding a minor charm that works similarly to Fatal Hold but for ranged monsters, i.e. like a ranged exeta? Certain % chance that ranged monsters become melee on hit? That would just be supreme QOL for lots of places.

We currently do not think that charms are the correct space for this ability. We are happy having this tool inside of spells and if we want to expand on its availability it would probably be within spells.

Who can trigger this charm in a team hunt? Anyone who damaged the monster, the person who did the most damage or the one that did the final hit?
What exactly is 'small radius'?

Only the one that does the final hit.

Overpower/Overflux deal damage based on your character's maximum health/mana and not your current amount of health/mana, right?

Yes. We decided that using current health/mana would feel bad, especially for Overpower in a near death/actual death scenario.

Carnage: Killing a monster has a 5/10/11% chance to deal physical damage equal to 10% of its maximum HP to all monsters in a small radius around it. (and values in my opinion should be 2-3x higher chance we got only one roll so sometimes for few pulls we cant trigger this effect)

This seems very bad for team hunts. Do you need to get the last hit on the monster for it to activate, or does it work as long as you damage it at least once?

It only works for the character making the actual lasthit. We are aware that this charm scales inversely with the amount of people in a teamhunt.

Will the life and mana received from the wheel of destiny be considered in this calculation?

Yes

Does the charm expansion reduce the reset cost as well?

Yes

Would you please consider change the damage type of carnage to same as parry? I don't understand the choice of physical, but that reduces it's usability. Also, consider adding a mark (similar to what we have for ranged monsters turned meelees), so we know they've been marked to explode. This will probably address team hunts issues that others raised.

No monster is getting marked. Only the final hit is relevant.
We landed on physical damage to not reduce the design space for other possible explosion based charms in the future and think physical fits well from a flavor point.


It was important for me to get the idea and mechanics out to you first, so that you can provide feedback, which you did. All numbers provided might still be adjusted.

Greetings,
Niadus

Today I have more news to share:

• We have decided to slightly increase the values for three charms:
  
  • Vampiric Embrace will grant 1.6/2.4/3.2% life leech (Up from 1/1.5/2%)
    
  • Void's Call will grant 0.8/1.2/1.6% mana leech (Up from 0.6/0.9/1.2%)
    
  • Savage blow will grant 20/40/44% (Up from 15/30/33%)
• Carnage, Overpower and Overflux will hit the testserver before the weekend

Additionally we have spent more time crunching the numbers. The following adjustments will be made to major charms:

• Carnage will have its chance increased from 5/10/11% to 10/20/22% and its effect from 10% to 15%. This should increase its viability as an option for specific solo/duo hunts.
  
• Several adjustments to damage caps will be made, as we think they are healthier for the game and its longterm development:
  
  • Elemental charms will be capped at 2 times the character level (Down from 2.5 times)
    
  • Carnage will be capped at 6 times the character level. In combination with the increase in effect this will make carnage and all elemental charms have the same effective cap regarding monster hp.
    
  • Overpower and Overflux will be capped at 8% of the targets maximum hp. This allows these new major charms to be up to 60% better than current elemental charms while reducing the risk of breaking spawns for high level characters

All adjustments to damage caps should not interfere with characters hunting monsters of appropriate difficulty and add important safeguards against hunting extremely below or extremely above appropriate difficulty.

Did overflux and overpower works with a small radius like carnage or there it is an individual chance of apply on the selected monster

It will be a single monster.

Carnage charm(stage2) will activate and do the 1000 DMG to this monster and additionally 10% to the non-diagonal ones?

Carnage only triggers when the monster dies, so it will only hit adjacent monsters.

I still think Niadus didn't answer to my questions related to savage blow in its current state being worse/weaker (3% dmg) version than low blow (4% dmg).

Is this topic closed or you are still reconsidering changing its values or cost (1500 charm points would put it in perfect spot)?

After prioritizing bigger changes, I have come around to think about it and it's effect will be adjusted. However even with the new numbers they do not need to match exactly, as there are scenarios in which one might be better than the other (for example when using the Strike Enhancement potion)

can you confirm that Carnage charm can be also trigger when we killing monsters summons? like fire elemntal from demon

It will not trigger from summons, but it will damage summons when it is triggered.

Not for this update, but for future changes and also vocation adjustments, consider how the double trigger chance of paladins affects existing and new charms.

We are well aware of the issue. However if we were to adjust it, it would have to be in a much bigger vocation adjustment to properly redistribute this power to paladins through other means.

Overpower: Your attacks have a 5/10/11% chance to deal damage equal to 5% of your maximum health.

Overflux: Your attacks have a 5/10/11% chance to deal damage equal to 2,5% of your maximum mana.

It is additional dmg, or the charm dmg replaces the attack dmg itself?

It is a separate instance of damage, similar to how elemental charms work.

Did charm Void Inversion work on monster like :
Vexclaw
Grimeleech
Demon
Silencer
Chocking Fear

Yes. Any monster that deals mana drain can have it inverted if the charm is applied.

Can we see also when charm Void Inversion was activated like other charms ( 450 zap charm dmg )

Good idea. We'll add it.

Greetings,
Niadus

Some additional info:

• We will stick with the 10% bonus for stage 3. The charm system grants a lot of power to characters and in combination with the other changes, like new major charms and the overhaul of the minor charm system, we are already adding enough power. In total we think there are enough incentives to unlock stage 3.
  
• Overpower and Overflux will be adjusted to not be reduced by armor. This will help these charms without increasing the cap.
  

All adjustments to damage caps should not interfere with characters hunting monsters of appropriate difficulty...

Can you double check this? The ONLY appropriate solo spawn for me is Quaras. They have an average of 12000 HP. 8% of that is 960

I have over 75000 mana. A 2.5% hit is 1875.

I apologize for the misunderstanding. The statement was aimed at elemental charms and Carnage. Overpower and Overflux need a relevant cap, as they would otherwise break most spawns. There were two options here:

• Put a relevant cap. This has the downside that the charm stops scaling earlier.
  
• Reduce the percentage bonus damage. This would result in the same damage for high levels as the current version, however it would heavily reduce the value of the charm for lower levels.

In the end we decided on the first option.

I got some questions, I do hope at least they're taken into account (would appreciate a response on Cleanse and Vampiric Inversion, though):

1. Any chance to enhance a bit further the Stage 3 buffs? It's cost-benefit is underwhelming and unappealing.
   
2. Regarding Cleanse: Any chance this includes skill debuffs within its coverage? PLEASE?
   
3. Any chance we get the Life Drain Variant of Void Inversion as a Minor Charm, too? (Vampiric Invesion)
   
4. Any chance you could fine-tune the values of Overpower/Overflux in order to not make it unbalanced between vocations? The posts above me contemplate a good point IMO.
   
5. Regarding Carnage: Is there a possibility to expand its range to a bigger size?

• As alluded to in this post, we will not adjust stage 3.
  
• This was discussed but ultimately we decided against it. We do understand why it is requested a lot however we neither think this is the right place for an answer to these debuffs nor like adding such a change without thoroughly analyzing it.
  
• Vampiric Inversion might seem an obvious option for an additional minor charm, however outside of their name, mana and life drain do not share any relevant characteristics. Because of that we do not think Vampiric Inversion is a good minor charm.
  
• We stick with the area and take a look at it post release.

Sorry for not answering some of your questions earlier.

I don't know if it's just a typo issue, but just to let you know that savage blow rune is still marking as 30% after the update hopefully is just a typo.

Values and descriptions will be fixed before hitting live at the latest.

Overpower & Overflux
Could the new charms be changed in some way to where they are not impacted by armor like Parry, as this further weakens them visibly?

Yes

I really miss the option to select charms directly from the bestiary user interface. Sometimes when you don't know the weakness of a creature this feature was extremely helpful and I really miss it.

This will not be part of the testserver, but it will be part of the winter update.

The icon from Bestiary tab: monster details - charm points does not match the icon from the Charms tab on the bottom which also presents charm points. Different colors. There is feeling like they are something different.

Yes. The icon will be changed.

Thanks for all the feedback so far. The testserver is nearing its end but I'll leave this thread open for a little longer. Any feedback that does not make it into this update will still be evaluated for future changes.

Greetings,
Niadus

With the testserver having come to an end, I wanted to take the time and thank you all for the feedback and for your persistence. The charm system has gone through quite some changes over the duration of the testserver and has transformed into a much better version of itself.

It was a pleasure testing and discussing with you and I hope you all had a great time,
Niadus