Feedback Guideline: Template only.

Topic: What's it about? (Harmony or a specific spell)
Feedback: What is your feedback regarding this specific spell or the Harmony system

__________________________________________________

Dear Tibians,
please use this thread for all feedback regarding the Harmony System and specific spells.


Harmony
As described previously, Harmony is generated and spend by Monk spells and are the core resource all spell rotations are build around. A intentional consequence of that play pattern is making the monk a weaker Rune-User, as using runes will not grant Harmony.
Harmony has a base bonus of 10%. With each additional Harmony this boost is doubled. 1 Harmony = 10% bonus, 2 Harmony = 20% bonus, 3 Harmony = 40% bonus, 4 Harmony = 80% bonus and finally 5 Harmony = 160% bonus. There are some ways to increase the base bonus of Harmony, like Virtue of Harmony or Mentor Other. This increase will be doubled with each Harmony as well.

Virtues
This trio of spells is at the core of every exalted Monk and allows him to play differently, based on personal preference and/or current need. Regardless of the chosen Virtue, whenever an Exalted Monk generates or spends Harmony, the lowest %hp group member will be healed (This can be the monk itself). The more Harmony is generated or spend the higher the heal.

Builder
Each spell in the builder category grants 1 Harmony. A monk cannot gain Harmony while at the maximum of 5 Harmony.

Spender
Each spell in the spender category consumes all Harmony.


In this Spell Overview you'll get a basic overview over all spells as well as our vision for them. When providing feedback please take the vision into consideration and use the template.

In addition to the new spells, Monks will have access to the following spells:
Magic Patch, Haste, Light, Great Light, Find Person, Cure Poison, Magic Rope, Levitate, Find Fiend, Light Healing, Intense Healing, Destroy Field Rune, Disintegrate Rune.

On top of that they will be able to use all runes, that are currently usable by all four other vocations.

Official replies:

• 26.02: First round of replies
• 26.02: Second round of replies
  
• 27.02: Planned changes
  
• 05.03: Adjustments for friday
  
• 10.03: More replies
  
• 19.03: Lesser Mystic Repulse, dots and cures, spellicons ...
  
• 20.03: Mystic Repulse, augment-stacking and rotations
  
• 24.03: Cooldown reduction for spending harmony points
  
• 26.03: Closing post
  

Hello everyone,
thanks for all the feedback so far.

Likely you will expect us to finish our lure with a wall box, meaning we have no monsters to our back. This means that any creatures who have followed us but can't attack directly will be wondering around or running back.

As it currently is, it's not clear if a given spell is a harmony builder or spender in the magical archive.

All spenders are marked by the harmony symbol in their spell icon. Builders are a bit trickier though. I'll take a look if we can make changes.

Paladins have the Swift Foot; Knights have Charge; Sorcerers and Druids have Strong Haste and Monks don't have a spell with the same 'buff level'

You and other players are right. I'll take a look at providing the monk with an upgraded haste spell or perhaps just Strong Haste.

If i understand it correctly you need 'swift jab' after leaving dawnport to gain charges properly....
I think this is realy bad design, other vocation do not NEED dawnport spells to play properly (but they can still be usefull in low level)

I see this the other way around. It's far better to not have spells that are instantly useless after having completed dawnport.

I feel like 'double jab' is more important to monk and should have access to it in level 12-14.

I'll take a look at reducing the required level and its manacost.

I took my level 20 promotion from the adventurer's guild instead of blue valley, and I didn't receive the 3 virtue spells. The NPC on blue valley doesn't teach them either.

Thanks, this is a bug. We will fix that. Monks should only be able to promote in the Blue Valley.

I've been playing for a couple hours now and finally reached lvl 20 and got virtues. It feels incredibly broken. Once I got to lvl 20, I went hunting dragons and with every Double Jab (4 sec cd) I healed for around 50% hp, and for every charged Greater Tiger Clash I healed back to full health even when I was in red HP.

Thanks. I'll crunch the numbers again. This is definitely not the intended powerlevel on lower levels.

... apparently monks heal each other from different floor levels.

Thanks. That's not intended behavior. Like serenity, virtue healing should only look for partymembers in your gamewindow.

Right now, in the Arcs HUD, the Harmony stacks counter shares place with the HIT POINTs bar.

Thanks. We'll look into adjusting this.

Currently, on the test server, all vocations can utilize the Transcendence Potion to obtain the Inner Peace achievement.
However, this creates an imbalance, as the original four vocations can also use their unique potions (Berserker, Bullseye, and Mastermind) to earn separate achievements.

We are fine with this and greatly prefer it to the alternative of having all achievement hunters having to reset all over again.

Mentor Other and the three Virtue spells all say "Scales with Magic Level", which is not true because they all have flat effects that don't scale at all.

You are correct regarding Mentor Other. The healing created by Virtues when gaining or using Harmony however actually scale with Magic Level.

Another thing is why most of monks power is after level 20. There is a night and day difference between anything below 20 and exalted monk. I don't think the other vocations are this weak in lower levels.

Some of it is by design but I agree that the difference currently is to great.

Happy testing,
Niadus

General Reminder

Please use the feedback guideline mentioned in the start post of this thread when posting your thoughts here. It helps us tremendously to process your feedback and understand your perspective better. Thank you!

----

Feedback Guideline for this thread:

Topic: What's it about? (Harmony or a specific spell)
Feedback: What is your feedback regarding this specific spell or the Harmony system

The level 30 spell (mystic repulse) cannot be learned from the NPC.

That's not a bug, its a feature. Monks will be able to learn that spell through visiting shrines.

With the virtues, the sustain is insane at level 20, I was able to hunt crystal spiders just by relying on the healing when using builder spells to generate harmony and then using a spender spell.

This should mellow out with higher levels, however I am looking into finding a suitable adjustment. The healing is indeed far too extreme for my taste on these very low levels.

Three bugs:
1. When using sweeping takedown *while out of mana*, it still heals you for harmony gain/loss.
Also, it uses up your harmony.
2. Second bug with the same spell, it kinda seems to be both a spender and a builder. When I use it, I end up still having 1 harmony left.
3. Sweeping takedown can be used in protection zones.

1. This is a bug and we'll fix it
2. This is probably not a bug, just the effect of Virtue of Harmony refunding 1 Harmony when using a Spender.
3. This is a bug and we'll fix it

@Kusnier: Thanks for the feedback. Both of these suggestions are on my list and are highly likely to be implemented.

It seems that the 'Virtue' defaults to Virtue of Harmony when re-logging.

This is the current intended way. If this turns out to be a big issue we'll consider adjusting it.

Restore Balance was healing 850+ with Virtue of Sustain, around 400-500 without. These values seem extremely high even for the high mana cost.
We also had a player test the mass spirit mend (mas res) and noticed it was healing minor values, capping out around 200 (this was tested on a level 150 w/ 33 ML)

These values seem fine to me. Restore Balance is still getting outclassed by heal friend, even when using Virtue of sustain. And to properly use mass spirit mend you must make use of Harmony. Using 5 Harmony with that spell is an incredibly high heal.

Happy testing,
Niadus

Thanks for all the feedback. There will be changes next week. While our analysis has not concluded yet, some obvious changes will be:

• Virtues have been providing exceptionally high healing, creating an imbalance compared to other vocations. To restore balance, we will be making substantial reductions, with the most significant impact at lower levels. At level 20, expect adjustments of over 50%.
  
• The damage spikes of spender spells will be adjusted. They will still be high, but as of now, we feel they are too powerful.
  
• Chained Penance will have its chain range adjusted from 1 -> 2. This should allow for smoother hunting. The initial cast distance will not be changed. Additionally we are looking at its rather high chain jump bonus.
  
• Strong Haste will be made available to monks.
  
• The mana cost of Double Jab will be reduced slightly and it will be unlockable earlier.
  

Happy hunting,
Niadus

Thanks for the feedback. A lot of changes will be made to spells:

• Spenders and builders: We'll shift some of the power of builders to spenders
  
  • Greater Flurry of Blows: Base Power will be reduced from 115 to 90
    
  • Chained Penance: Extra damage per chain reduced from 30% to 15%.
    
  • Sweeping Takedown: Base Power will be increased from 45 to 50. After the multiplicative bonus of Harmony this spell has an effectiv Base Power of 130 (or 210 in Virtue of Harmony)
    
  • Greater Tiger Clash: Base Power will be increased from 36 to 44 (Or 114 with 5 Harmony and 185 with Virtue of Harmony)
• Virtue of Justice: Fist Fighting bonus decreased from 15% to 10% (or from 30% to 20% while serene)

Additionally some mechanics will be adjusted:

• In an effort to reduce the power of autoattacks the bonus from the Three-Fold Path has been reduced from 100% to 50%
  
• Mantra will no longer be doubled while serene and mantra on gear will be slightly reduced
  
• The healing of virtues has been adjusted to start lower but scale better with the amount of Harmony generated or used. Spells that generate or use 1 Harmony will heal up to 25% less.

Finally two reworks for existing spells will be made:

Spiritual Outburst
I agree with the general sentiment. Its too clunky too use and doesn't match the playstyle of the monk.

The new version will be chain spell, that hits up to 6/7/8 targets depending on the perklevel. It will have the same Base Power as Sweeping Takedown (50) and its damage will not increase per chain. It will target like Chained Penance, both in its chainrange as well as prioritizing high HP targets.
The cooldown will be reduced from 60s to 24s.

Balanced Brawl
In an effort to provide a unique spell for monks to combat ranged enemies as well as match its playstyle better, Balanced Brawl will be adjusted to hit a much larger area in a half-circle shape in front of the monk and no longer need a target.

@Kusnier: Focus Harmony, Focus Serenity and Mentor Other are still on my list, however its imperative to first fix/adjust the sustain and damage to reach our desired goal.

Seems weird when I can damage ~1100 on Greater Flurry, ~600 on Flurry, lots with chained (Sometimes 1400+) and Sweeping Takedown goes for ~900.

This should not happen when using 5 Harmony. Sweeping Takedown should always eclipse Greater Flurry of Blows when used this way.

We are still on the search how some outrageously large damage numbers where achieved. Any help is appreciated!

These changes will go live on friday, just in time for the extended test phase weekend.

Happy Testing,
Niadus

How do you feel about Monk being able to use runes? To elaborate: Do you expect them to use runes inbetween spells to fill the rotation or during solo / teamhunts?

Rotations for the monk should only in include builders and spenders. Even though monks will be notably stronger than paladins with runes this should not be enough to replace a spell. However it should allow them a fallback for unfavourable hunting grounds or bestiaries.

When you say decrease the basic power for a particular spell, how does the basic power affect the damage of the spells?

It reduces the damage that spell gains from its scaling factors (For the offensive monk spells thats their weapon as well as their fist fighting. For healing spells its the magic level).

Spiritual Outburst:
Then introduce damage scaling based on perk level, e.g. +10%/+20% base damage for Perk level 2/3.

This is not feasible due to the way chain-jump bonuses work, they are multiplicative with each other, this will go out of hand quickly with a lot of jumps.

Similarly to Chained penance - amount of targeted monster just eems underwhelming.

I'll take a look at changing jump distance and total amount of targets.

As it is now monks have a much more complex rotation, not just when it comes to number of spells and casts to complete a rotation, but also because of a lot of spells being directional AND having to keep track of harmony stacks.

The goal was to provide a stable rotation and having enough space for experimentation (which paladin-rotations do not allow for example). Still, I'll take a look if there is a good way to provide a shorter rotation.

The current cooldown time of 60 minutes for Focus Serenity is too long, considering its purpose and the Monks role in combat.

Both Focus Serenity and Focus Harmony are having their cooldowns currently reevaluated.

In general:
I understand that the monk was overnerfed. Overnerfing however was the best way for us the gather relevant data and start moving towards a healthy middle ground.

Thanks again for the feedback,
Niadus

Originally posted by Delamain E1 on 10.03.2025 12:35:28:

Originally posted by Niadus on 10.03.2025 12:18:25:

In general:
I understand that the monk was overnerfed. Overnerfing however was the best way for us the gather relevant data and start moving towards a healthy middle ground.

Thanks again for the feedback,
Niadus

Its great to hear that the cooldowns for Focus Serenity and Focus Harmony are being reevaluated. Finding the right balance is crucial, especially for a new vocation like the Monk.

The approach of overnerfing to gather data makes sense from a development perspective, but given the current state, should we expect more adjustments leading up to the Monks official release? Will there be further tuning to ensure it remains a competitive and engaging option without being too weak compared to other vocations?

Yes, there is plenty of time left to make adjustments. That was one of the reasons for multiple phases with time between them.

@Dark Black Magician:
We discussed a lesser version of Mystic Repulse and have decided against it. Level 30 is not a high bar to clear to gain the current version of Mystic Repulse.
The monk will gain access to at least one damage over time skill, making its life easier against invisible enemies.
The monk will most likely not gain another cure spell.

@Fleur Noir:
Thanks for all the ideas.

During the game we now have several options to shorten the cool down (CD) of individual spells like momentum or beams in MS. Can you think about developing a visualization CD in the game window, like harmony in monk.

We are aware of this issue. However this is not in scope for this update.


@Frajzen:
The current combination of spells leads to a static rotation and was designed to reduce mental load. Whenever you use a spender, your next spell can be Greater Flurry of Blows. Afterwards you just alternate between Chained Penance and Flurry of Blows. I'll take another look at it regardless.

@Criisszinha:

Is it possible to change a bit the great flurry of blows icon? im having a really hard time checking out in the bars the remaining cooldown of the skill.

Would it help if the fists on the icon strike into different directions?

@May Cin:
Mystic Repulse was designed with the given intent. Its powerlevel was calculated taking the augment of Strong Ethereal Spear in mind. Nevertheless its probably a good idea to put some more of its power into its Aug II.


Thanks for all the feedback,
Niadus

Any update on a new haste spell for monk?

For now we'll stick with granting monks access to strong haste.

Would it help if the fists on the icon strike into different directions?

It will not make it to the testserver, but we'll do some changes to improve their distinction.

@May Cin:
There will be a significant shift of power from the baseversion to the augment. However even after this shift, Mystic Repulse will be the strongest of the three spells at the cost of having the longest cooldown.

Multiple Augments for Base Power stack additively. For example: Based on current numbers, having both Depths Claws and the Augment you have a total of 15% + 8% = 23% boost leading to a Base Power of 95 * 1.23 = 116.9.

Devastating Knockout vs Forceful Uppercut:
There is one very important distinction between these spells - One is a Spender.
Forceful Uppercut is stronger as a Devastating Knockout when used while having no Harmony (130 vs 62 Base Power)
However when Devastating Knockout is used with 5 Harmony, it will have an effective Base Power of 161 (62 * 2.6) in Virtue of Justice/Sustain and 260 (62 * 4.2) making it eclipse Forceful Uppercut massively.

@Frajzen:
Thanks for the feedback. You bring up some good points. I'll try to find a fix that both works with my envisioned goal for each spell as well as a feel-good rotation in non static contexts.

Greetings,
Niadus

Greetings Tibians,

Thank you for all your testing and feedback over the weekend.

We have decided to keep the test servers up and running until this week Wednesday under Optional PvP rules.

Furthermore, we are working on the following change, which should benefit every monk's rotation:

Using a Spender Spell reduces the cooldowns of Builder Spells by 2 seconds for each Harmony Point consumed.

This should allow for smoother rotations, as Greater Flurry of Blows, in particular, can be used more reliably after using your Spender Spell.

The cooldowns of Spender Spells will be updated as follows:

Greater Flurry of Blows: Cooldown increased from 10 to 16 seconds.

Forceful Uppercut: Cooldown increased from 40 to 60 seconds.

Mystic Repulse: Cooldown increased from 14 to 20 seconds.

The animation of the Spiritual Outburst chain effect will be updated to make it more visible.

Please note that these changes might not make it to the test server before it officially closes this Wednesday.

I'm here to report a bug, when you summon the monk's familiar, and you are near the Depot, and you activate PVP mode and attack a player, the familiar when attacking and moving towards the player, enters the depot, which should not happen in any case.

@Rey Victor
Thank you for reporting, we will take a look!

Cheers,
Fluffey

But couldn't they already do this with a tiered helmet and cd gems?

Making the cooldowns more palatable is a good change as this vocation has a tonne of buttons, but I don't think I would ever bother tiering a helmet now, and that's a shame no?

@Myrkz
Momentum and gems do provide benefits for the rotation indeed, but we want the monk's core gameplay and rotation to remain accessible to all players.

As with any change, we will monitor its impact closely, and if tiered helmets and gems turn out to be underwhelming for monks, we will find a solution.

Cheers,
Fluffey

Greetings Tibians,

This thread will be closed shortly, as the test has concluded.

Is this really the last testserver? Can we expect monk to be released next week? Early April? I'm super excited to play monk and waiting. I believe that all possible balancing has been done by cipsoft efficiently to the point that we are very close to the launch.

@Godomilo
Thank you for your kind words! We also believe the monk is in a good place, thanks to all of you who helped refine the new vocation over the past few weeks. While we can't share a specific release date yet, our previously stated window of Q2 (April - June) still holds.

Is there any possibility that on the next Monk testing phase we could have access to tiered gear?

@May Cin
At the moment, no such testing phase is planned.

I have a couple of QoL suggestions that I feel would add to the overall quality and immersion for the Harmony system.

@Neon Hero
Thank you for your suggestions! While none of these are currently planned for implementation, we've noted them for potential future consideration.

I request a way for druids and monks heal friend spell to be used @mouseover target (or other quick targeting of friends without having to change the hotkey name every time) , specially for monk now without uhs.

@Knubbig Duxx
This is outside the scope of this test or the release of the new vocation. But we hear you.

A big thank you to everyone who played and tested the monk during this phase and shared their feedback! We hope you enjoyed this first look at the new vocation ahead of its launch on the live servers.

If there are any pressing topics you still want to bring up, the general thread will remain open until tomorrow morning.

Cheers,
Fluffey